Last year, Mesa-based artist Erin Nimmer attended a conference in Utah and publicly declared her support for LGBTQ people in her church, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
“I’ve experienced loneliness in my life. I’ve felt like I didn’t belong. And I’ve experienced a lot of the things that I think LGBTQ people experience in the church,” she said. “And I think when you go through something like that, your heart naturally pours out to people who have experienced those things.”
The LDS Church does not allow same-sex marriage. And while it says it is not a sin to identify as gay, lesbian or bisexual, it also teaches that sex must remain between a man and a woman. But the church’s stance on LGBTQ issues has changed over the years.
In recent months, LDS Church leaders lifted rules that made same-sex marriage something that could be excommunicated and allowed the baptism of children born to gay parents. And just last week, they issued new restrictions on transgender members of the church.
At the same time, there is a growing community of LGBTQ members of the LDS Church who choose to remain in the church.
They will meet in Utah next month for their second Gather conference.
Erin Nimmer was in first place last year.
“You know, I’ve seen a lot of examples of people in the church. You know, gay people in the church who have spoken openly about their experiences,” Nimmer said. “And I think that’s great. When people share their own experiences, it opens your eyes and your mind to it. And you want to be there for those people and advocate for them.”
She has always been an artist and has used art to express her own feelings of trauma and loneliness, so she brought one of her paintings to the conference. It shows a suffering figure painted blue, surrounded by brightness, being comforted by two angelic beings.
“When I went to that conference, I had this piece of art. And to see people walk up to it, tears in their eyes, and point to the person who was struggling and say, ‘That’s me, and I can relate to that. And I want to hang that on my wall so I’m reminded that I’m not alone.’ That was the most meaningful thing to me. It’s a part of it that I’ll always cherish,” she said.”
One of the organizers of the Gather conference is also one of those who speaks most loudly about his own experiences as a gay man in the LDS Church.
Ben Schilaty is a therapist, co-host of the podcast Questions from the Closet, and author of A Walk in My Shoes: Questions I’m Often Asked as a Gay Latter-day Saint. In his therapy practice, he works primarily with LGBTQ members of the church.
The show spoke to him about his work, his experiences and why he felt compelled to share them
Conversation highlights
BEN SCHILATY: Coming out is an interesting thing because it happens in these different processes and phases. I first realized I was attracted to other boys when I was about 11. But that wasn’t a problem. It was a phase that would pass. And then when I was 19, I was a missionary for my church for two years. And then when I came home from my mission at 21, I had to realize that maybe these feelings aren’t going away. Maybe… they’re a part of me.
And so I tried my best to marry a woman, do everything, and not be gay. But then, at 23, I was totally depressed and wondering how I could ever be happy. And I just didn’t want to be gay. And then I just had to tell somebody.
So I came out to my two best friends. One of them was my roommate. And when I came out to them, I didn’t use the word “gay.” That word scared me so much at the time. And I told both of them… that I was more attracted to men than women. And then I turned to my roommate and said, “You know, I understand if you don’t want to be my roommate anymore.” And he said, “Why wouldn’t I want to be your roommate? You’re the same person you’ve always been.”
And that was the beginning of my personal healing. I was able to say there’s this thing that I hate about myself, that I’ve judged myself for, and I’m sure you’re all going to judge me for it. And they said, “No, we’re not going to do that. We love you.”
And after that experience, when I was 23, I came out to other friends and my parents. And then seven years later, when I was 30, I came out publicly on my blog. And that catapulted me into a world that I hadn’t been in before, where I’m openly gay and into this new community that I hadn’t been in before.
What made you make that decision at 30? It sounds like it was a long process, almost a decade of slowly talking about it with the people in your life. But talking about it publicly is something else entirely. Why did you do that?
SCHILATY: Yes. You know, when I came out at 23, I did it because I couldn’t do it anymore. I wouldn’t have been able to survive any longer if I hadn’t told people. I had to do it for myself. When I was 30, I saw other people struggling and feeling alone. And I thought, if I come out, maybe I can help other people and educate a community so people don’t have to suffer and struggle as much as I did.
So let’s talk a little bit about your decision to stay in the church. I’m sure many people, if not most people in your position, would have left at some point. And I’m sure you know many who have. Why did you decide to stay and keep going? You wrote a book about it, you have a podcast, you’re an advocate for this cause in that regard. Why was that important to you?
SCHILATY: You know, the truth is that I have seriously considered leaving many times. I love it. It’s my home, but it’s also caused me a lot of pain. And it’s hard to accept that something you love so much can also be hurtful and damaging. The closest I came to leaving was 29. This was before I came out publicly, and I had fallen in love with my best friend. Who was also a gay member of the church. And he was on his way out of the church and wanted me to go with him. And that was tempting, but I wanted to stay and make it in the church.
And so I finally just got down on my knees and prayed and said the most sincere prayer I’ve ever said in my life. And as I prayed, I felt this strong divine presence inviting me to move forward within the teachings of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
That means a lot to your personal life, doesn’t it? Does that mean you have to be single? You can’t date or you’ll be excommunicated? How does that work theologically?
SCHILATY: Theologically, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints teaches that to enter the highest degree of heaven, one must be married to a man and a woman. There is no getting around that. That is our theology and our teaching. And it is very clear.
And so someone like me who has chosen to stay in the church either has to marry a woman or I’ll get less than married people. And I don’t know how this is all going to work. I have my questions and concerns, but I also have a lot of faith and hope.
For me, as an openly gay Latter-day Saint, that means now that I want to live the Church’s teachings on chastity, which do not include sexual relations outside of marriage. And I’m about to turn 40. And up until this point in my life, I’ve never actively dated men. I just recently started dating men. And I’ve talked to my local leaders and they’re all OK with it. You know, as long as I keep the vow of chastity, which is what I plan to do.
Let’s talk about the community that you started and that you’ve been instrumental in building since you came out almost a decade ago. Every year there’s this Gather conference where the large LGBTQ community within the church comes together. There are support groups like the one you started in Tucson that you mentioned. Tell us a little about the breadth of that that people might not know about.
SCHILATY: Yes, you know, we need to be around people who are like us. Who have similar life experiences, who have similar beliefs and values, those are just people you need to be around. You don’t have to justify yourself to them. I don’t have to tell you what it’s like to be me, you just get it. And that’s what the Gather conference was about: Let’s bring people together who want to strengthen their faith in Christ together and have Christ-centered support, but who are also at the intersection of LGBTQ and Latter-day Saints, and their families and friends and those who love them.
It was like there was this palpable feeling of love. Because for so many people, you know – I’m out and I have a lot of gay friends. For example, I could call my friend Charlie, who I’m doing my podcast with right now. And he would answer and I could talk about whatever I’m going through. Not everyone has that.
The whole point of the Gather conference was that there are people who are lonely, who are isolated, who have problems and who feel alone. And it doesn’t have to be that way.
Transcripts of KJZZ’s “The Show” are completed on a timely basis. This text has been edited for length and clarity and may not be in its final form. The authoritative record of KJZZ’s program is the audio recording.